Hi Ray, just saw the YouTube video and came here …

I own two LifeBlue LiFePO4 75AH batteries with a Bluetooth BMS. Each manufacturer have their PROs and CONs and I would have to say the "life time warranty" is a major PRO but, as part of your follow up, would be interested in the fine print.

Also, interested to find out if it is a true Battery Management System vs a Battery Monitoring System. i.e. will you be able to see the charge/discharge amps, temps, what the high and low cutoffs are for voltage, temperature and amperage. There is a lot of competition in this price range.

I had an unfortunate problem with my first set of Lithiums that simply did not last more than 1.5 years. The company had numerous BBB complaints and did not even acknowledge my warranty claim … so gave up on them and went with LifeBlue instead. The ability of Lion Energy to stand behind their lifetime warranty is key.

Personally, before anyone buys a Lithium, the features & costs should be compared between the name brands. Lion Energy may prove to be worthy (and, I sure hope so). The more choices we have, the better.

Pretty certain you're going to love these Lithiums in comparison to the golf carts you currently have.

Cheers, Steve

Also, interested to find out if it is a true Battery Management System vs a Battery Monitoring System. i.e. will you be able to see the charge/discharge amps, temps, what the high and low cutoffs are for voltage, temperature and amperage. There is a lot of competition in this price range. — Steve S

No, looks like everything is sealed with no way to connect from the outside unless the company can somehow. I guess its aimed at the drop-in replacemet market.
A couple of things that set them apart from many out there is these are prismatic cells and the battery is about 10 lbs less.

Looks like lowest dealer advertised price is $799 as far as a Google search shows. Also saw on a forum where a guy got them at $699 at an RV show in Pheonix.

Talking to them it looks like they are confident on the lifetime warranty thing but of course a company can easily go under or get sold. Just like Fantastic Fans had a lifetime warranty at one time.

Thanks Ray.

Lithiums that do not have a true Battery Management System built in will tend to be less expensive (at least, they should be). There are standalone external BMS devices that tap into the wiring to determine amps in/out and the voltage but at an additional cost. I believe the more expensive ones allow programming so you can actually do low temp./voltage/current cutoffs.

As a temporary measure, most likely, your existing charge controller can be used but may need to adjust the parameters. My previous RV had a manual bypass which allowed much higher amps to charge the Lithiums rather than going through the various stages … I'm sure the Lion Engineer will be able to help you on that.

On my new RV, I upgraded the charge controller to a specific Lithium module and outright replaced my solar charger since the original one could not handle Lithiums properly - neither upgrade was expensive.

You lucky man. I read about these a few days ago and called our friend. Then I take a nap today and get up and open your forum and low and behold there’s Ray Man with some Lions. Just got off the phone with the ole MobileHomesteader and by the way He was headed to the barber. I said to him I thought he was a ole horse man. Why was he going to a barber I thought all horse folk keep some good shears. Well I want say what he said hehe. Can’t wait to hear more about them Ray Man.

Prepare to be impressed with Lithium power. Once you get your solar charger adjusted you will like how fast the bank charges without long absorption and float cycles.

haha!

My old back is already impressed. ;)

Just think, with 200 pounds or so of weight removed and all the newfound space in the front storage there is room for more gadgets!

I have a Bogart Engineering SC2030 solar charge controller mated with my Trimetric battery monitor system. The nice thing is it is completely customizable so I can change charging profile to match whatever the lithium batteries require.
You can see all its programmable settings here - http://www.bogartengineering.com/wp-content/uploads/docs/QuickReferenceGuide.pdf
I'll have to see about my shore power chargers, they may not work, need to talk with the company.
I have a Progressive Dynamics PD9260 with manual override charge wizard pendant. I can manually set it to put out a constant 14.4V. So with that, I may get around having to get a lithium specific charger.

Good luck with these batteries

Thanks, should be fun to tinker around and test them out. They have given me the incentive to redo the wiring in the battery storage area. Clean it up a bit, most of it was an addon affair as my boondocking system slowly evolved. :smile:

Hi Ray … yup, Bogart/Trimetric will be able to handle your new batteries properly!

On my Progressive Dynamics 4500 series, I simply ordered a Lithium module for it - simple to replace and nothing to adjust.

In below freezing temps, the batteries are designed to prevent charging and damaging the battery cells. The way around that is to keep the batteries above freezing by keeping them inside, use a heater or run a large load to get the cells warmed up first. Lithiums will have the capability of being able to be discharged at much lower temps though.

I see that ReLion now have HT versions which include a built in heater. Only necessary for those doing winter camping I would think. No issues if boondocking in the U.S. southwest since the daytime temps are typically well above freezing. My BMS will reactivate charging once the temp rises back to 35F.

You lucky so and so. Lol they sure look nice cannot wait to see the rest of the videos

Yeah Ray, cough up the next lithium battery video. :razz:

Ray we have our lithium batteries in for about a year now and boy are they exciting. Charges up way faster with our solar or generator. Get to use way more out of the batteries between charges. Solar barely kept up be for now we have plenty of power with the same panels. Its nice not to have to keep refilling the lead acid batteries. We installed two 120amp Expion360 batteries in the same place we had the old ones. It got a progressive dynamics PD9160AL charger and added a Victron energy monitor. The monitor and the charger are both programmable from the phone for the solar.
Good luck and enjoy yours as much as we do.

Sounds great! thanks

I cleaned up and reorganized my 12VDC power system wiring preparing for the installation of my 3 new Lion Energy Safari UT lithium batteries.

In this video, I go through the 12V power system, explaining what things are, and how it all works. I let you know the wire sizes I used plus all the fuses and breakers.



On a side note - I contacted Bogart Engineering. They sent back these recommended settings.

We recommend the following settings on the TM-2030 for most LFP batteries.

P1 - 14.3 or 14.4V
P2 - 2.0%
P3 - battery bank capacity in Ah
P8 highest voltage your system can tolerate (for example, inverter input limit of 15.5V)
P10 - 98%
P14 - 0.00 hrs
P15 - 12.8V
P16 - 12.8V
P20 - 0.00/Off
P21 - 0.00/Off

They also have new firmware out for both the Trimetric and solar controllers but have to send back pay shipping and $35 to have programmed.

I just saw they have a new addon WiFi thingymahjig for accessing readings and settings
http://www.bogartengineering.com/products/wf-2030.html

Related Links:

Bogart + Trimetric Install - https://www.loveyourrv.com/bogart-sc2030-cc-and-trimetric-tm2030-rv-installation/

PD9260 Converter Charger - https://www.loveyourrv.com/installing-the-inteli-power-pd9260-for-improved-rv-battery-charging/

1000W Inverter Install - https://www.loveyourrv.com/1000w-pure-sine-wave-inverter/

Lead Acid Battery Install - https://www.loveyourrv.com/upgrading-my-rv-battery-bank-and-12-volt-system/

Catastrophic Fuse Install - https://www.loveyourrv.com/installed-catastrophic-fuse-rv-battery-bank/

VIAIR 12V Air Compressor Power Jack Mod - https://www.loveyourrv.com/viair-450p-rv-12vdc-air-compressor-review-and-rv-hookup-mod/

Complete Boondocking Power System Overview - https://www.loveyourrv.com/diy-rv-boondocking-power-system/

Cross the bridge Ray :) Get a larger inverter and energize the whole Cougar. Add a few more panels and enjoy. :cool:

As far as the charging profile I would check with the battery manufacturer. Essentially all the LFP batteries are pretty much the same with max charging voltages but your battery may have a different profile given their BMS. You want a charger that holds voltage as low as possible and keeps amps high as long as possible. LFP doesn't need tapered charging. Regardless you should see much more efficient and rapid charging of these batteries than the FLA.

I contacted Continuous Resources, LLC 437-227-3301 and they give me a good deal on 8 of these batteries. If your interested call them. There located in Price, UT.

that's about what I would like to have
To keep the wife's oxygen concentrator running over night.
So how much ? Lol

I thought you were a pretty steadfast led acid guy. What changed your mind and why did you decide on the Lion Energy brand amongst all the choices available today?

800 AH of usable battery is an impressive bank! I think this will be close to doubling your usable capacity.

I am looking forward to hearing some reviews from Ray and yourself down the road.

Talked to Lion Energy this AM and they are planning to give LYRV viewers a discount likely $800 plus free shipping in the USA. Will have more info after the holiday weekend.
Cheers, Ray

Talked with Lion Energy folks this AM with the engineer there and they said I could use my existing chargers. The PD9260 isn't lithium specific but I told them how I can override the lead-acid algorithm and give it a constant 14.4V using the manual charge wizard pendant. They said that would work well.
However, if I decide to upgrade the charge converter they recommended the Iota with the addon IQ LIFEPO addon - https://www.iotaengineering.com/IQ/#!/detail/IQ-LIFEPO

14.4 should be fine for a top balancing BMS controlled battery. These lithium batteries don't need 100% full charging like led acid. Many of these companies recommend not letting the batteries get to 100% and trickle floating from there. We always try to keep enough use and load on ours to keep them below 100% or shut off the panels. Typically running the 2 way fridge through the inverter does the trick and saves a little propane. Also while you are stationary and plugged in you will want to store your battery at less than 100%. LFP hold their charge a long time. You can check with Lion but typically there is no point in keeping the batteries under 100% charge when you aren't using them connected to shore power. I am curious to hear what this manufacturer has to say regarding this.

Our max charging rate is 3.4v/cell or 13.6v/pack. That fills the battery to almost 100%. With a top balancing BMS you are able to go past 13.6 but there is practically no capacity gain doing so.

Point is that 14.4 is fine and any voltage higher than that really doesn't give you any appreciable gain or contribute to the long term health of the battery.

Greg, Sometimes you have to broaden your horizons. No I am starting to have some issues with the weight of the T-105's. Also we unfortunately have a residential fridge and it cant be replaced account the compartment isn't big enough for a 12.5 cf absorption model. Also We too don't have enough power if we have cloudy days. Just a combo of several things that have turn me towards them. I was quoted a price for 8 of the lions and it was a very good deal. The T-105:s been good. 4 are 5 years 6 months old and still working. Showing no signs of failing and they have twice run dry. Filled them back up and no issues.

I was wondering about the weight. Did you need to upgrade the structure of the compartment? 500 pounds is a pretty large and concentrated load. Your new batteries will eliminate that issue. Also the lithium batteries will accept a charge better so whatever solar you are harvesting will fill the batteries faster. With 800 AH, you should be able to run that fridge spanning over cloudy days or at least reduce the times you need to run your generator. I see that Continuous Resource lists these at $799. They gave you a quantity discount below that?

Yep Greg they dropped them to $700 a piece for the eight. We noticed the front compartment starting to sag some. We are looking into someone trying to stiffen up that front compartment somehow. I speak with Mobilehomestead Solar service (Eddiie) regular about the issue with my situation. If no one helps me while in Maine I will wait and catch Eddie in NC when he come east to his families home. I am going to replace these batteries most likely. With what we will see. A lot is going on in the world of batteries. We will see a lot of change in the future.

They said though it's true that keeping them below 100% charge can lengthen the cell life they weren't overly concerned as the BMS will cut off the voltage once charged. They did recommend the IOTA addon as it wakes up every 15 days and gives it a bit of a bulk charge I guess to help keep things balanced. Helpful for people like me that boondocking part of the years but also on hookups.
They also said they guarantee the battery for 3500+ cycles, that's what the talk is about when saying lifetime warranty. Not the owners lifetime but their rated cycles lifetime.Which works out to a lot of years.

You shouldn't need to replace your new lithium batteries for a very long time. $700 bucks, that a pretty good deal. I have a feeling prices will continue to drop. At some point solid state lithium will hit the market and be another game changer. That may be a few years away.

With the BMS included you can just direct swap them out. At least that's the case with Battleborn. You could ask Lion, I suspect they are the same.

Even if your current charging profile isn't perfect they will still work until you can have Eddie or someone else re-program your solar charger and modify/replace your converter charger. The only thing you would need is to make up some new battery cables.

With the BMS included you can just direct swap them out. At least that's the case with Battleborn. You could ask Lion, I suspect they are the same. — Greg F

One thing I have to do before hooking up the Lion was to charge each individually to 100% first before hooking them together. They arrived at about 60% due to hazmat shipping rules.
Didn't take much time. :)